00:00 Speaker a
Openai is focusing on global expansion, partnering with the UAE’s G42 to build an AI data center in Abu Dhabi. That’s because the company also takes action to buy Johnny Ive’s AI device startup company and push the hardware. For more information on ChatGpt Maker’s strategic move, we have investigative journalist Karen Hao, who started reporting on Openai in 2019 and recently published a new book. This is the AI Empire: Dreams and Nightmare in Sam Altman Openai. Karen, it’s great to bring you here. I think, Karen, you would have chosen a better week to write a new book on Openai. The news flow continues. I want to know some of your news, but first, it’s extensive, you already have this new book. Why did you write this book, Karen? Focus and purpose? What is the message you are trying to convey to your readers?
01:55 Karen Hao
Yes, absolutely. I think everyone, a lot of people who are public, their introduction to AI is indeed a chat moment. Around the AI’s discourse, people feel like they’ve landed from the sky, it feels like the feeling of this technology, where it comes from, who it comes from, what it will do to society. And, since I’ve been covering companies since 2019 and AI since 2018, I really want to put some background behind this moment and it does show that technology isn’t actually inevitable. And, now the way it is developing, we should actually have serious concerns about that, but we have roles that shape the way AI will continue to develop in the future.
03:05 Speaker a
I want to know some of the questions you outlined. But first of all, I do want to get your opinion because I’m curious about the news flow this week, and there’s a lot more. As we mentioned, we decided to buy a startup from Johnny Ive for an impressive price. Then, this morning, they announced the UAE Stargate. You add it up because someone thinks of Altman and Company, what is Altman trying to implement here? When you see that message, it tells you where the company is and where he wants to go?
04:02 Karen Hao
Altman said in an interview recently that his strategy is to cover the field. He is trying to do as much as he can. I mean, with the Johnny Ive thing, he has been a Steve Jobs fan for a long time. He has been talking to Johnny Ive because he is an idol with Steve Jobs and he has been trying to get the deal done. So it’s the culmination of these two intersecting forces, Ultraman really tries to put his antennae in all these different spaces and tries to really get close to that dream of work. Well, but with the UAE stuff, I mean, that does go back to some of the things I highlighted in the book, which are about the cost of the technology, which has a lot of computing resources, data centers, supercomputers that need to be built to serve Silicon Valley’s special concept of AI, which is a largely large scale model. That’s why they started moving these huge infrastructure around the world (for example in the UAE).
05:50 Speaker a
By the way, it’s a very interesting experience with Johnny Ive, because that’s the same, he wants to move into the hardware, so he certainly goes with the legendary Sir Silicon Valley Titan. But that’s your point, maybe closer to Steve Jobs’ legend. That’s interesting. Let me ask you this question, when you think about the role and position of Openai in the wider LLM market, is the large language market still Altman still number one? He owns gold, everyone else is still struggling to get second, or is the market developing?
06:54 Karen Hao
This is a good question because if you consider Openai’s leadership in household recognition, it’s number one. You know, everyone knows chatgpt. But from a research capability perspective, I’m talking to application developers now, who have been using these technologies and they’re trying to build their own applications to become model vendor agnostics because they don’t really think any company has leadership anymore. They hope to be able to insert Openai one day, anthropomorphism the next day, and Google the third day.
07:43 Speaker a
Karen ended up in that market, what does that mean? Has it become commercialized?
07:48 Karen Hao
It will be completely commercialized. But all of these companies are now moving towards a strategy rather than distinguishing themselves from research and capabilities, they try to differentiate themselves from their products. Again, it’s a way to guide us back to why he tried to build such a partnership with Johnny Ive. He does try to get into more intuitive user interfaces that draw people into his company.
08:30 Speaker a
I must ask you, after researching this book, I have reported it and written it all out, do you use Chatgpt?
08:42 Karen Hao
I don’t use chatgpt.
08:45 Speaker a
That’s very interesting. Why, Karen? Why don’t you use it?
08:51 Karen Hao
First, I looked into the company so I wouldn’t be willing to give a lot of data to the company. But secondly, I really focus on how this particular vision for AI development has a supply chain that contains many environmental, social and labor damage. Something…
09:20 Speaker a
So, what do you mean by environmental, social, labor damage? Karen, spelled.
09:28 Karen Hao
Yes, so because they try to pursue really very large models and have to train the data value of the internet and have to train these huge supercomputers, which are now the size of hundreds of football fields, these data centers use a huge energy attraction. They have to use a lot of water. They are now powered by many fossil fuel resources. Well, ultimately, many of these technologies are technologies for labor automation. Openai’s definition of artificial universal intelligence is a highly autonomous system that outperforms humans in most economically valuable work. So, they are trying to create something that will erode people’s job opportunities.
10:25 Speaker a
With these concerns in mind, Karen, how do you solve some of these problems? Is it a wise way to solve this problem, is it a regulator, a policymaker, a legislator?
10:39 Karen Hao
I think that’s all. I like to make analogies with the fashion industry, and for a long time they have caused enormous environmental, social and labor damage in their supply chains. Not only is it top-down regulation, legislation, international human rights organizations, that occupies the focus of this issue, but consumers choose to actually change their behavior rather than buying clothes from brands that may not care about these things, creating the entire market for ethical and sustainable fashion.
11:18 Speaker a
The final question is, you are reporting this, are there Openai, are they working with you, Karen, is that? Have they participated in this project?
11:27 Karen Hao
They don’t.
11:29 Speaker a
They don’t. Did they give a reason why they didn’t do this?
11:32 Karen Hao
They, we have a long history. I am the first reporter to introduce the company. They don’t like profiles because I came to my own conclusions. They haven’t really visited since, but I keep reporting and I keep talking to insiders. Insiders continued to talk to me because they said my profile was actually indeed accurate.
12:00 Speaker a
OK, Karen listen, congratulations on this book, we thank you for your time today. That’s great.
12:05 Karen Hao
Thank you very much for owning me.
