Bret Stephens: Hi Gale. After I arrived at the era from the Wall Street Journal, I will flash back to April 2017. Well, a little difficult landing. You introduced yourself, told me that you co-wrote an online column called Conversation and asked if I wanted to be your next sparring partner/victim.
Eight years of these posted conversations, nearly 300 times, we brought it to the finale so that each of us can work on books. What do we think about this long, interesting, wild run of ours?
Gail Collins: I must admit, I was surprised, it was a very happy thing. I love my job, but I am still shocked to find myself thinking, “Oh, great, tomorrow’s talk day.”
Brett: And, I was surprised by how resonated so many readers resonated. Borrow from your second to most popular presidents: There is a silent majority prefer our disagreement of goodwill than the endless food struggles of today’s politics. Although I also think we have President Trump thanks us for giving us a topic that always gives us some time to agree with.
Gael: Guess the way to start our ending is…the opposite. Ready to roll?
Brett: Well, Jews as Catholics: My condolences to Pope Francis. Jews as Catholics: Things tend to be better when you allow clergy to marry. Just say.
Gael: After growing up with Catholics that day, I spent very few hours until my 12th grade degree, trapped in discussions about the importance of virginity until marriage – even if you didn’t take your husband with you until you were 40 years old. Much of the spirit of this topic is a reflection of the church’s facts about sexual morality set by men who have never been with women.
Brett: I'll avoid saying what you're thinking.
Gael: But the great thing about Francis is that he believes in following the rules but does not force them all over the world. His great legacy is the victory of tolerance.
Brett: Amen and rest in peace. To a totally evil theme: Do you think Trump will fire Pete Heggs?
Gael: Wow, what do you think our Secretary of Defense will come up with next? When he visited his second wife, he accidentally left the plan for the nuclear war behind? Given that he has been married three times, with four children and three stepchildren, I think you can see that he doesn't always remember who he shares military secrets with.
Brett: Apparently, the only job on Earth higher than marrying Heggs is to work for him: He was fired or lost four assistants last month. Another former consultant, John Ullyot, was an enthusiastic trum foot, describing the situation in the Pentagon as “completely messy.”
But I doubt the president will at least fire Heggs soon. First, because it means Trump admits he is wrong, and people like Mickey McConnell are right to object to Hergers’ confirmation. Second, because Hergs' obvious incompetence ensured his loyalty to the president. Third, because Trump may like to see such Heggs, hanging on the thread. Fourth, because for Trump, no government agency is sacred, a clown like Hegseth opens a message above the Pentagon, sending a message that he doesn't want to trash.
Gael: Look, that's why I miss talking to you. A great list.
Brett: I forgot the fifth reason: Hegseth's job is safe, as long as he wears those tailor-made suits that Trump finds so handsome.
Gael: It reminds me again that most of our Trump trauma comes from election reality TV stars as president. By this reasoning, I would say Pete H. (Pete H. After reading some changes to the TV rating topic, or just hearing what someone said to him on the late night phone call.
Brett: Quote Forrest Gump: Trump's life is like a box of chocolate because you never know what to get. Except it is Pandora's box. They are not chocolate.
Gael: You know, it's hard to believe, but over the years we might spend more time arguing about Joe Biden than complaining about Trump. Regarding whether Biden should have announced his retirement earlier, but I think he was still impressed with his performance until the same page before his presidential performance.
Brett: Don't you think the only really important indicator of his performance is his bequest of our Trump second arrival?
Gael: OK, of course it's a big deal. But I don't think Biden's stubbornness should eliminate all the positive parts of him in the office. From student loans to clean air to fairer taxes, he is a good president. Do you still disagree?
Brett: In my opinion, Biden will be remembered as president and he will never sit on a stool if he has the chance to fall between two people. Is he a unity, healing and transitional figure in Gerald Ford mode? Or a radical family reformer in the FDR and LBJ models? Is he a brave Truman cold warrior, facing the fierce attacks of Russia, or Ukraine's defense, or a Ghatres-like half-measure, and support for Kiev is always an endless, never on time? Did he restore honesty and integrity to the White House when he used the office to pardon his son’s criminals, or did he mislead the health of the American people?
Another big argument we mentioned over the years involves wealth and taxation. I fit the former, not very passionate about the latter.
Gael: Final confession: When I feel like we have reached too much consent, I almost always pay for things about income tax to ensure the fight.
Brett: Starting a political battle was a strategy my mom used with my dad that he wouldn’t be sleepy on the steering wheel that was long-driving in Mexico.
Gael: The United States has always been a country of free enterprise. Almost all top taxpayers are millionaires. It's not a bad thing, but it does require us to do our best to ensure that the poor are not suffering from hunger or untreated illness and that they can get educational opportunities that will get them promoted.
Brett: Like me, living on the ragged edge of the upper class, I think nearly half of the tax revenue distribution is incorrect.
Gael: Despite our numerous arguments on this topic, I am honored to be able to help the unfortunate rise in a country that basically believes that the rich should contribute reasonably.
Brett: The best way to give unlucky people is to be able to give them a job. The money that governments often make money is the money that feeds growing bureaucracy and permanently dependent on dependence among its so-called beneficiaries.
Gael: The government employment plan is good. By the way, I'm not saying we shouldn't be wary of government waste. One of the endless bad things about Elon Musk is that his war on useless overspending looks so clumsy and threatening that it could be long before the liberals approach it again.
Brett: Like Trump, Musk is also the one we agree with. Two self-invading narcissists sold a merchandise to their followers. But I don't think we agree with the benefits of electric cars like this.
Gael: You'll make it almost as much tax as I do. Electric cars certainly have some ups and downs, but they currently have a much lower breakdown rate than burn rate, and they are part of the road to combat climate change.
The biggest challenge is to ensure drivers can charge when they leave their homes, and a forward-looking president can help with access to more abundant services.
Brett: Besides the batteries they rely on must be mined in ecologically destructive ways, they are often in places where terrible environments and labor records are recorded and corrupt governments. To me, this is at the heart of my innate conservatism: It sounds so good, from trying to eradicate poverty in the 1960s to creating non-polluting vehicles in the 2000s, and now, now electing a celebrity tycoon to make America great again is certainly a lie.
Gael: Your opinion is certainly reasonable, but it ruled out any serious leap-offs – I think even now, Americans should be nurtured to believe big things will happen.
Brett: certainly. But it is rarely from Washington.
Gael: I remember the first time I heard Barack Obama speak. This is the reason I completely forgot. But I will always remember listening to this young politician who is not only smart and funny, but also timid When he speaks. Some young women actually fainted.
He seems to be so…the future. The government he led has made some amazing changes, including the deep, complex, but clearly defined rights of health care protection for our citizens.
Maybe there will be some new Obama-like candidates. Sorry, I can’t torture you with my gate every week.
Brett: But you can still do this for lunch and dinner. It's just not our usual audience.
This reminds me of: If our readers have been sticking to us over the years, whether they say to you or have angered what I say, our readers have been persistent in sticking to us, these conversations of us will never last until the fact that they do. They are the ones who made this little experiment so unexpected. They let us move forward in various ways, usually in person. When a stranger asks me if it is Bret Stephens, I will never forget to stand on the sidewalk in Los Angeles, waiting for Uber. “It's me,” I said smugly. He smiled and said, “Gal Collins is my favorite columnist!”
Gail, we disagree with many things. But, as our outstanding colleagues, editors of the unknowing, peer headlines and dear friend Aaron Retica notes: “We believe in reality, not fantasy, wit, boredom, twist and turn more and more direct. Pleasant writing!
Gael: A happy book to you. Although you have traditionally ended our conversation, I took the last chance to ask for your amazing partner tonight. I don't think we have anything else except the future of the country.
Even in my deep democratic community on the Upper West Side, people always stop me from asking, “How about Brett?” and make it clear that they like the idea of having smart, friendly conversations with someone on the other side.
A person with a sense of humor. It’s a great honor to hang out with you for eight years like this. Both are because you can make me laugh, and because you always come up with some great endings in which you quote everyone from Victorian poets to “SNL” comedians.
Adios is now, Brett. I will miss you more than I can say.
